A Guided Tour of Trauma and Recovery with TJ Woodward

 Our enlightening conversation with the insightful TJ Woodward, clinician advocate, author, and founder of Conscious Recovery, sheds light on Complex PTSD and Trauma. We also explore the healing process. TJ takes us on an empathetic journey through the maze of guilt, shame, and trauma - shining a light on our deepest fears and guiding us toward a path of healing.

Transcript

Healing Core False Beliefs in PTSD

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to Hatching Creativity . This isn't just another behavioral health podcast . This is the place where thought leaders converge to talk about real life challenges , breakthroughs and pivotal aha moments . Today , I get to speak with TJ Woodward . He's a clinician advocate , author and the founder of Conscious Recovery . In this clip , we talk about complex PTSD and some good ideas on ways to respond to people's reactions . Also , we discuss finding a therapist , how to choose an appropriate therapist and help therapists choose appropriate clients for themselves as well . If you like what you hear , please like , share , subscribe and tell all your friends about Hatching Creativity . Thank you all for joining us today . I'm really excited for our guest , tj Woodward from Conscious Recovery . I've been speaking with just a little while , but we've hit it off really well and I think you've got a lot of good information to share . So , tj , I'm going to pass it to you for a brief introduction about who you are and what you do .

Speaker 2 1:06

Well , thank you , and I agree , I think we've had some really amazing conversations that have been energizing for me . I've been working in the addiction treatment field since 2008 , and my passion is really helping people reconnect with their own passion for this work and also helping people actually heal the underlying root causes that drive addiction the two things that were really striking to me when I started working in the field . One is watching clients come back over and over and over again to treatment and hearing well-meaning therapists , counselors , coaches and clinicians saying what are you going to do differently ? And I thought well , what can we do differently as well ? And my work , conscious Recovery . The foundation of it is underneath all addictive behavior is an essential self that's whole and perfect . I see shame as one of the driving forces of addiction and , simply said , shame doesn't heal shame . So I'm looking at how we can provide a different opportunity for people .

Speaker 1 2:03

I think the first thing I want to do with you is let's set a clear distinction between guilt and shame . Yeah , I think that's a really important topic to head on .

Speaker 2 2:19

Yeah , and it's important because guilt and shame are not only they don't only show up differently , but how you actually heal them is really different . So , simply said , guilt is I believe I've done something wrong or I've done something wrong . Shame is I believe that I am fundamentally , fundamentally wrong or broken in some way . Guilt you correct guilt behaviorally . That's why in recovery circles there's an amends process . I make amends for the ways I've harmed others and in myself included , and Behaviorally . That , quote-unquote fixes it . Shame is something really different , because shame is something much deeper . It lives in secrecy and silence . So the way we work with shame is we actually bring it into the light , authenticity and vulnerability , creating a great connection . We talk a lot about attunement with our clients , so shame really needs a safe space to be brought into the light and that's the way that gets healed .

Speaker 1 3:16

You know , tj , I've been doing a lot of research on this lately myself . As you know , you don't get to be 45 years old and not have your own issues and things to look into , and one of the things that I've been hearing a lot about is complex PTSD , and it's kind of a newer concept that a lot of people may not be aware of . Are you familiar with it ? Have you done any research on that ?

Speaker 2 3:43

I am , I am familiar with it , yes , absolutely and what are your thoughts ?

Speaker 1 3:47

maybe give a little explanation of what CPTSD is and and kind of the difference between a complex PTSD and a Standard PTSD that most people are more going to be more aware of .

Speaker 2 4:03

Well , I'm gonna start with saying I'm gonna be giving my own interpretation of it , so I'm not gonna be giving like the classic definition of what the two are .

Speaker 2 4:11

But what I will say is that PTSD and many , as a matter of fact , most Diagnoses if you look at the DSM or if you look at how we actually diagnose and treat , we tend to look at behaviors and symptoms , right , and so PTSD is a cluster of symptoms , I think , where , for me , when I say it's complex , it's multi-layered , right .

Speaker 2 4:31

One of the one of the things that's fascinating to me is we can have two people that experience something that's the same in Real time and have completely different outcomes . In other words , one person can be in an accident , a car accident , the other person can be in one , and one has symptoms of PTSD and the other one does not . And the study that I read that I think was the most interesting showed something profoundly simple , and that is people who had more acute p at PTSD Symptoms were people who had early childhood trauma . So it wasn't just going to war . That was traumatic , because of course it is traumatic , but the symptomology came out of not only what was happening like , let's say , in the 21st century , but also what was happening when we were children and the the current traumatic event was actually triggering or Activating the trauma that was unhealed from the past . So that's how I kind of frame it and I know there's a lot of different layers to complex PTSD .

Speaker 1 5:34

You know , what's really interesting about that is , as I started learning about CPTSD . It brought me back to the conversations that I've had with myself about other people and other people's reactions to certain Conversations and certain things . Sometimes you'll talk to somebody and you'll go damn , their reaction is really over the top For what just happened . Yeah , and you go . It doesn't make sense to me .

Speaker 1 6:05

But if you look at it through that lens of the CPTSD , you can also say I've never walked in that person's shoes and I haven't experienced their lives . So their response is actually completely cohesive with their feelings and their experience in life and we can't necessarily identify that or identify with that . You know of an interesting situation that had happened was a sexually discriminating comment towards a woman co-worker that somebody said to her and none of the men in the room could possibly comprehend that this was offensive to her , and every single woman gritted their teeth and made a fist and it was so telling as to oh , wait a second , I'm a white male . I can't possibly have the same understanding of whatever that situation was as a female who was in this situation . And sometimes looking at things that way can really help you understand other people better and connect with people better and actually create less division with other people too , and that's really one .

Speaker 2 7:35

We could call that compassion too . Right , what you're speaking to is actually at the core of my work , and at the heart of my work , because I love what Bess Alvander-Coltz says about trauma . He says trauma doesn't show up as a memory , it shows up as a reaction , and so the reaction is usually something that's , for many of us , buried deep in the unconscious or the subconscious , and a lot of mental health treatment and addiction treatment is focusing on what we can see , the behaviors . So the analogy I use because I like simple is if you plant a maple seed , you're gonna grow a maple tree . Would it be unrealistic to plant a maple seed and hope for an elm tree ? And in the same way we look at the seed . That represents what I call core false beliefs . And the reason I call them core false beliefs is , I want to acknowledge , that there are lies that we've picked up about ourselves .

Speaker 2 8:27

This can happen in groups of people , and it can happen in the individual , and usually what happens is we're walking around with one of these core false beliefs one that's very popular , unfortunately is I'm not worthy . If I believe I'm not worthy , it's not just a thought , it's actually this core belief that's buried , buried deep down in the unconscious , and I'm walking around vibrating with that and I keep replicating that over and over and over again , not only because it's all I believe I'm worthy of , but it's literally not possible to do anything other than that , because the core false belief is a vibration and it's attracted to that same vibration , and so the healing is actually getting down to the core false belief . Another way to say it is it's less about what happened and more about what we decided about ourselves as a result of what happened , and that is individual right .

Speaker 2 9:17

One person can have an experience that can be very traumatic . They can have a very deep wound I'm stupid , I'm not good enough , I'm unlovable . Someone else can have that experience and it meant nothing to them . That's why I'm not a massive fan of the terms big T , little T , trauma , because trauma really is for the individual . What was the impact on me ? And so the healing is not just in the behaviors it's in . Where did this originate and how can we actually get down and heal that , because it is possible .

Speaker 1 9:48

Wow , TJ , you know I saw your video on Core False Beliefs and actually that was one of the things that made me really excited to talk with you . And it also is kind of like that law of attraction right , we attract what we put out . And , on a personal note , you know , for years and years and years I've been in therapy dealing with all kinds of things right , we all are right and one of the things that I've noticed is we were never able to get too far because we were attacking today and the symptoms today and maybe talking a little bit about before . But one of the things that was really helpful for me in my personal journey was writing an emotional journal and understanding my feelings on whatever it was , because there's always some triggering event to those feelings , right , and that has been really helpful in me understanding although it does , it can be a bit more of an emotional ride than just going at what we're currently dealing with , but I found it to be really helpful for me personally too .

Speaker 2 11:08

Yeah , and you're really like . I have so much passion for what you're saying , because therapy is a wonderful thing and talk therapy is a wonderful thing , and sometimes it can be limited if we're only working with what's happening today or we go into narrative therapy where we learn where the patterns originated . Personally , I did that for about a decade . I was in therapy , I was in recovery and I'm like , oh , I get it . Now this happened and therefore this happens , and that's why I react this way . But nothing really changed until I started working with this incredible therapist and he was an engaged Buddhist and I'm like I don't know what that means , but I'm willing to learn and it was essentially .

Speaker 2 11:46

It is still what's happening in real time , but it's how it's showing up in your body , right ? Where is the reactivity that happens in the body ? We use the term I love that you called it the triggering event rather than the trigger , because usually people say my mom triggered me , my girlfriend triggered me , my boss triggered me , and that's where a lot of us stop . They shouldn't be doing that , right . But we want to be curious , not about what triggers us only , but what gets activated . The wound got touched and it's getting touched because it's wanting to heal .

Speaker 2 12:18

So we , yes , narrative therapy , yes , communication skills , yes , looking at the patterns . The deeper work is where did this originate and how do I start to care for the younger self ? Because usually it's a four year old , a five year old , a six year old me who made these major life decisions . My brain wasn't even developed enough to have a cognitive understanding , so the solution isn't cognitive only . We must get down to not only the emotions , as you said , which of course is the massive part of the work , but as also our core being and really getting down to the deeper experience when we decided all of this and how it's still locked in our body .

Speaker 1 12:59

You know , we on our last conversation we talked about kind of spirituality and beliefs and I just find it really interesting that our conversation took a . This was not what we had planned on talking about today and the conversation took a total left turn when this came up and I think it's really exciting to talk to somebody who understands this and who can relate on this level , and I really appreciate that . Tj , I'm also thinking , you know , this could be an ideal opportunity for somebody who's listening to this that may be looking to find their own therapist , maybe looking to find somebody who can help them overcome some of the trauma and some of their CPTSD that they have . Do you have any recommendations for somebody looking for help ? How do they find a therapist who can help them really get to the bottom of things ? What would you say ?

Speaker 2 14:13

Well , I think we all have a different , maybe a set of needs

Choosing the Right Therapist

Speaker 2 14:17

. There was a time in my evolution where I did need someone to work with the patterns and work with the communication skills , and then there was a time when I knew that I must go deeper . And so for me , what happened is being able to talk to this person , ken , who became my therapist , the focus that he had on engaged Buddhism and I read a little bit about that and it was really like being fully immersed and engaged in present moment experience . That to me resonated so much . And I'm thinking when my husband and I went to couples counseling , which was the best experience we could possibly do as a couple .

Speaker 2 14:52

I was really clear , because I had worked in the field a while , which actually I knew which schools I wanted a therapist to have graduated from , because I knew they were doing depth psychology . I knew they were doing spiritual psychology . They were doing this deeper work , not just looking at the patterns and the behaviors , but really getting down to the core of things . And to me it's very spiritual and that word can be really loaded . So we could unpack that possibly . But for me it was like what do I truly desire ? And I was at a point where I said I'm really ready to do the deeper work of healing , so what's required is someone who's done their own . That could be a whole podcast in itself , but that's really my passion is helping clinicians do their own healing so they can be present with their clients .

Speaker 1 15:37

I love that and we are going to do one specifically on that because I think it's such a great concept . You know , a lot of times people will go in and I have to go on into therapy . You know it's hard enough to find somebody that your insurance covers and somebody who's got time within the next 10 years to see you and all of those things right . So once you find somebody , oftentimes you just take that first person because you just feel that you need to have somebody to talk to . But it is really important that you interview a therapist before making a decision .

Speaker 1 16:17

Even if you're going into treatment they usually have multiple therapists . They've got different people that can treat you and different people that can work with you . A lot of times you can ask a clinical director for recommendations on who you can talk to or speak with them about different things . But it's really important that , going in , that you advocate for yourself . It's the same thing as when you go to a doctor and you interview your doctor or anything else . You know being able to advocate for yourself and have some idea of what you want and if maybe you don't feel comfortable doing that , than having somebody with you who is not afraid to ask difficult questions . From your perspective , tj , as a therapist , how would you go about interviewing a client to see if you're a good , if they're the right fit ?

Speaker 2 17:17

for you . Well , I think the beauty of being a therapist or a counselor in private practice , for example , is that you really do get to decide what your passion and your calling is . Who do you want to work with ? For example , I have worked really well with people who have a borderline personality disorder diagnosis , even though I'm not a big fan of the term , because there are people who have usually severe attachment wounding early in life and they're presenting in a particular way . But what I loved about working with them was what I knew . What they really required or desired is to be seen and to be heard and a deeper level of connection , and that's what I love . I love being able to be with someone and drop in and have a deep connection .

Speaker 2 18:02

I'm thinking of a friend of mine who couldn't be the more opposite . He's a therapist and he likes to work with CEOs and he likes to be really directive . He's like I like to tell really powerful people what they should do with their life . Right , that could not be further than the truth from me . The beauty of being in private practice is we do get to decide what our specialty is and who we want to work with when we work in a treatment environment . It's a different thing , right , because we get to work with a broad spectrum of people in a lot of different ways . I love what you said . I've never heard anyone say that when you go into treatment you can actually choose the therapist . In many cases and most of the time they're assigned to you and of course , we call that agency right . Having the agency to say and you use the term empowered , I believe empowering ourselves to make our own decisions for our own care . So I love that .

Speaker 1 18:51

Well , especially going into treatment . You're going into treatment to make a change in your life . This is the ideal time to make the first move , to give yourself some of your power back , which is choosing who you want to help you . What is a good place that people can find you ?

Speaker 2 19:10

TJwoodwardcom is probably the best place you can learn about conscious recovery , as well as everything else I'm up to currently . Thank you so much for joining us . This was great . Thank you , it's been an honor .

Speaker 1 19:21

Thanks for tuning in to Hatchin' Creativity . We appreciate your support . Please don't forget to like and subscribe and tell all your friends about the show and remember it's never just about one thing .